Canadian milk logo spells trust for consumers

© AgMedia Inc.

Description (Tag): 

Comments

Exactly why l have been against people like Michael Schmidt and the advocates of selling unpasturized milk,all it would take is one E-coli outbreak somewhere in Toronto and the headline in the Globe and Mail would be "Tainted Milk to Blame" and it would set the industry back as a whole!
True Story:As a dairy farmer, l had a relative from toronto ask me if there where any Hormones in Milk, l said certainly not that l was aware of.They had a neighbour whose 11 year old daughter was developing breasts and they read a story in the Globe and Mail that said Diary farmers used Hormones in their cows...so they stopped buying milk.
Education is our best policy but its hard at times when the media is always looking for a sensational story line.

Candian dairy farmers are allowed to import the BST hormone for use on their own farms - in addition, there are no restrictions, other than tariffs, on the import of dairy products containing BST. Therefore, Canadian consumers of milk and dairy products could easily be consuming BST, and never know it.
I agree that education is "our best policy", but the place to start isn't with consumers, but with dairy farmers who don't know what's going on in their own industry, and, as a result, don't tell people the truth when they ask questions.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

l repeat,l am not aware of any dairy farm using BST and from what l have heard it is not a good fit in our daily quota system even if it was legal.l do not need to go into the Pro's and Con's associated with the use of it,other than to say its a information highway out there and getting your main source of info from something like the "Globe and Mail" is a big mistake.Their only goal is to stir up consumers dislike of biotechnology in general.

Why would any Canadian dairy farmer ever be dumb enough to tell another Canadian dairy farmer that he/she is importing BST for use on his/her farm? The problem is that your dairy farmer buddies could easily all be using it, and telling nobody, thereby forcing Canadian consumers to consume BST, while US consumers, because of voluntary labelling, have a choice.
In addition, nobody knows how much BST completely-legally comes into Canada in the form of dairy products containing it.
Therefore, dairy people are, as always, being extremely slippery with the truth when they claim there's no BST in Canada - that's exactly why we need the Globe and Mail to expose the double standards of our dairy industry.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

" In addition, nobody knows how much BST completely-legally comes into Canada in the form of dairy products containing it. "
Now how could that be with the price difference of 38% that keeps being tossed out as a tariff wall that no import dairy product could dare climb over !!
Just how does that even happen ? Then call it trade distorting and the COOL purpose !
Sorry but don't think so .

I can see double standards but I don't have to leave rural Ontario or even the BF website for that .

If you Google BST in Canada, one of the things you'll find is a response by Professor Mike Moffatt of the Ivey Business School at the University of Western Ontario, to Liberal MP,Wayne Easter, as published in McLeans Magazine, outlining just exactly how many litres, and/or kilograms, of dairy products were imported into Canada during the previous year. Easter was doing his usual nonsense about Canada being BST-free, and Moffatt set him straight - somebody had to. The point is that the biggest distorter of the truth about the Canadian dairy industry, is the dairy industry itself, and/or the people who pander to it.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

in what capacity does either of them serve in the Dairy Industry?

Why not Google both names, and find out for yourself? - Easter is, I believe, a former dairy farmer, a former President of the NFU, and, therefore, is someone who never lets the truth get in the way of working himself into a daily lather about things nobody with an IQ bigger than their shoe size cares about, thereby making him one of the biggest liabilities/loose cannons the federal Liberals, as well as supply management supporters, have. Or, to look at it another way, with friends like Wayne Easter, supply management doesn't need enemies.
All Moffatt did was to refer to publicly available information to refute what Easter, who never researches anything, claimed in McLeans Magazine.
Mike Moffatt is an Assistant Professor in the Public Policy Group at the Ivey Business School at the University of Western Ontario - he recently had an article "Who benefits from tariff reductions?" in the June 6, 2013 edition of Canadian Business, and after reading it, truly-paranoid supply managed farmers (aren't they all?) can add Canadian Business to their list of subversive publications along with the Globe and Mail, and National Post.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

If you Google Moffatt, on page 9 you'll find a link to an article he wrote in/for the Globe and Mail in 2012 called "Canadian dairy price gap leaves lots of room for tariff cuts".
Note to paranoid dairy farmers, why not add Google to your list of subversive media?

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

So we know you don't like or agree with the IBS .
Not sure what part of Wayne Easter you dislike more , him being Liberal or being a former NFU member .
But to put both in the same posting is just wrong .

I sure am. There's an awful lot of BST being delivered to PO boxes in places like Watertown NY, Buffalo, places in Michigan, northern Vermont.

Not to mention Estrumate, Factrel, Fertilene, etc. etc

It won't be the milk but it very well could be the Brazilian Chicken Wings they have been eating . Hormones added to the feed to so that the chicken breast grows bigger faster . The breast meat is the part of the bird that is wanted . The wings were like a waste product for many years . This is the truth because I remember Thompson posting it here before .

It sad if they allow BST here in Canada. Its hard to tell what any one puts in , use , or do whatever to anything in this world not just Canada and gets away with it till they,re caught.

I know for certain that truck loads of whey are brought into Canada from the USA for the purpose of making cheese. My friend trucks it in. It is obviously cheaper, as is milk. So we get the BST one way or another. Where are the regulators, why is this allowed?

These fools can't see/won't see the forest for the trees - trying to have a trusted brand for a commodity product is insane at the best of times, and especially when your customers know full-well they're paying almost 38% more for exactly the same product, than people living sometimes less than a mile away in the US.
Any so-called marketing expert who never mentions the importance that price has in the marketing mix, especially for a commodity product, is only telling his/her client what they want to hear.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

Any one who does not know that price and quality are part of any marketing is living a fools paradise . Ask a scotch drinker not a beer drinker . The most important thing to a beer drinker is that it is cold . Have you ever seen a bar that serves warm beer busy or selling much beer ?

The whole organic industry is based on trust and the closer the better, price has very little to do with it.

We have a winner !! I was going to say it also but you took the words out of my mouth .

There are 4 "P" components to the marketing mix - price, product, promotion, and place, and the importance of each component varies to suit the purpose at hand.
Gasoline and milk are driven almost entirely by price because they are the same product wherever you buy them. Organic is completely different because people believe, mostly-mistakenly, that the organic product is somehow better, and therefore, product is the largest component of the marketing mix for it. Beer is different again in that promotion is the biggest component of the marketing mix for it.
Therefore, comparing organic and milk, is nonsense, because the marketing mix is completely different for each, if for no other reason than because, in Canada, price has been emasculated from the marketing mix for milk - resulting in the completely-understandable line-ups of Canadian consumers in US milk stores.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

Then why is it so bad for milk to cost more here ( like so many other things here in Canada ) and gas is not ever mentioned by the SM bash crew ?
You can't escape the fact that so many things cost so much more here than south of the border . You have to look at the whole system and not 1 or 2 items . Yet when it comes to the price of grain it never gets a mention .

As for the 4 P's here when it comes to gas the price higher , the product the same , promotion is non existant , and the border should not matter . With beer those four might play a role after " sex sells " but I doubt it .
Organic is not even on the map . It is all a selling scheme high price for a product that is not any better . Marketing at play along with some stores who sign produce wrong and misleading consumers when there should be huge fines for doing so but then what do you do at the Farmers Markets to all the less than honest who go there to sell their stuff .

I would really like to see interviews of Canadians who are lining up to buy milk in US stores . Then ask them to line up for the US health care to look after their border induced shopping choice health problems .

Your running out of gas there dude .

If "everything" costs more in Canada than in the US, why did the Dairy Farmers of Ontario spend 40 years boasting that it didn't?
It's exactly because of the double-standard giving dairy and poultry farmers, and nobody else, the income and purchasing power benefits of 200% tariff barriers, that supply management is not well-liked, and will not be missed, especially in the farm community.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

If it is only the price of milk and chicken that costs more here as you seem to be blinded by then it is a small price to pay . You figure in the cost of health care in the USA and I am sure it is more than a wash . Your starting to sputter . You best put some Ethanol in your tank !

When beef and pork cost up to 38% more at the retail level in Canada than in the US, we'll have a level playing field in Canadian agriculture.
The issue remains quite simple - supply management isn't well-liked, and won't be missed in the Canadian farming community because only supply managed farmers benefit from the incomes and purchasing power derived from 200% tariff barriers, thereby allowing them to be financial bullies in the farm community.
Come on really, people, if you weren't so-blinded by greed, you could see the world the way it really is - it really isn't hard to do, unless, it seems, you have quota.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

While Mr.Thompson makes the usual solid arguments, he is much too low with his numbers. Yes, DFO did claim 38%, but anyone who has bought cross border knows the price difference is closer to 90% for both dairy and poulry. Also, the tariff rates of 200% are the very minimum, most are higher, and butter is 299%. I suspect the 299% number was arrived at because 300% may just be 'jaw-dropping'. Raube Beuerman

Do we had a couple of people applying for a comedy job. Farmers get the same price for the same thing here in Canada in the SM farm , so why does the price differ in every store you go to and for the same thing? Maybe it could be the processor or the stores has something to do with the price difference dah. Maybe its the inflation put in from the time they receive and sell the products. Its time to open your eyes and see its not just one thing that keeps the price up in Canada.

Price is a direct relationship to product marketing . Look at corn fed beef . Any one who raises beef for their own consumption uses a ration with barley or mixed grain not just whole corn . There comes a point where you can't keep driving down the cost of production and expect a good tasting product .

When US consumers start to line up, in Canada, to buy our milk because of "animal care, the environment, traceability or milk quality", and Canadian consumers stop lining up, in the US, to buy US milk because of price, then, and only then, will I concede that our dairy farmers aren't completely driven by greed, and that this latest ploy by DFC to coverup the huge retail price differential between here and the US, isn't outright, odious, and self-serving, propaganda.
Once again, is there any doubt why supply management is not well-liked, and will not be missed?

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

Maybe you should start your own Political Party because you are obviously seeing something none of the other Parties are forecasting, the dismise of Supply Management.
just don't bet the house on it.

l have always found it odd that the US dairy industry has done all sorts of Public Relations work in assuring American consumers that the safety of BST is well established and then Dairies pay a premium for producers not to use it! Especially when they know very well there is no test on milk that can distinguish between a cow given BST and a cow that is not!..That not only is double standards, its double-dipping as well,there will be farmers paid a premium for that 10% more milk those BST treated cows can give!
Least in Canada we have banned the Sale of BST and if Tabloid papers like the Globe and Mail want say something different then its up to them to prove it!Accusations are meaningless unless you have something to back them up.

Firstly, only somebody on the receiving end of Globe and Main criticism would ever suggest, or even think, that it is a tabloid - it's not a tabloid, and often calls itself Canada's national newspaper. It's the paper decision makers read, and they rely on it. Furthermore, when you're on the receiving end of constant criticism from both the Globe and Mail, and the National Post, the way supply management is, you're on notice that you need to be either changing your ways, or packing your bags to leave town - supply management supporters dismiss both papers at their own considerable peril, and there will be no sympathy for them for doing so.
In addition, Canada has only partially banned the sale of BST - we have banned the sale of the product itself because of the adverse effects it is purported to have on dairy cows, but we have not banned the sale of products containing BST, meaning that consumers of dairy products (like ice cream made from imported milk powder) bought in Canada could easily be ingesting BST, and never know it.
It is disengenuous, therefore, for Canadian dairy farmers to insist that Canadian consumers are not ingesting BST when the consume dairy products they purchased in Canada, partly because of the lack of non-tariff restrictions on the import of products containing BST, and partly because of the ability of Canadian dairy farmers to import BST for their own use.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

Maybe you could tell us what excat dairy products contain BST ? considering there is no milk test on the market to detect its use!
The Globe and Mail might as well have accused the whole organic milk sectors in both the US and Canada of using BST since they have no way of proving they don't!
Papers like the G&M,National Post,Sun Media and the Star are all feeling the "digital" pinch these days... their days are numbered, which is kind of funny when you consider Supply Management is thriving!

Nobody knows how many Canadian dairy farmers import BST for their own use, and nobody knows how much of the dairy products imported into Canada contain BST, and that's the issue. Therefore, anything between "a little bit" and "a whole lot" of the dairy products purchased, and consumed, in Canada, could easily contain BST, and nobody would, or even could, know it.
Ironically, consumers who buy their milk in the US, would seem to be better able to avoid BST than consumers who buy their milk in Canada - that's why it's such a crock of BS when supply managed farmers tout milk produced under the supply management system as being "safe".
Therefore, I think it would be hilarious if the Globe and Mail explained why, when it comes to being able to deliberately avoid BST, consumers are safer buying milk in the US, than in Canada.
Furthermore, as I understand it, neither the Globe and Mail, nor the National Post ever accused dairy farmers of anything except adhering to double standards, and gouging consumers in the process - the only people making baseless accususations are, as always, the people in the dairy industry itself.
Finally, only a zealot, or a fool, would, or could, believe that an industry experiencing continually-decreasing primary demand, and charging almost 38% more than what is readily availble to buy sometimes less than a mile away, could ever be "thriving" - living on borrowed time, or living in a fool's paradise, yes, but thriving, no.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

l would certainly love to hear the G&M explain to Canadian consumers why milk from a Country that openly promotes and sells BST is safer than a Country that has banned it!...but they won't,they can't!.. and that's why they are nothing more than some 2-bit Tabloid trying to catch the public eye.There is a old saying "never let the truth get in the way of a good story"...and the G&M live by it.

I've already explained why consumers who want to avoid BST in their milk, and get a better price to boot, would be far-better served by buying their milk in the US, in containers clearly marked as being BST-free. Look at the facts:
(1) BST-free milk in the US is labeled as such, in Canada it's not
(2) nobody knows how many Canadian dairy farmers import BST for their own use and then sell their milk to consumers who mistakenly think those farmers didn't use BST.
(3) we have not banned either the use of, or consumption of, BST in Canada - all we have done is not allowed it to be sold in Canada.
Therefore, the award for "never letting the truth get in the way of a good story" goes to those who, like yourself, claim we have banned BST in Canada.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

Do people line up at the border to go across and buy their milk and save money, is that all they drive across to buy. I have news for them it cost more for the crossing fee , the time and the money in gas than to go and get your milk in the corner store. Wait they do fill up their car or truck buy maybe a washer or dryer , have their animal checked out from the VET or nip and tuck, maybe a wardrobe and they just went over to buy their gallon of milk . Maybe you should become a writer for the comedy channel and let the rest of Canada have a big laugh not just the BF readers.

When my son was on a University work term in Sarnia two years ago, he, and his 4 roomies, would all get in one car, and make a weekly trip to Port Huron just to buy all of their dairy and poultry products, and with five of them in a car, it was a money-saving trip. As I understand it, the generally-accepted practice for cross-border shopping, is, quite-understandably, to never go alone.
As for wardrobe, I've always found things to be cheaper at Wal-mart in Goderich, than in any Wal-mart in the US, and, with as little respect as I can muster, anyone dumb enough to want to take a pet across an international border, even for an hour, or two, is dumb enough to believe supply management doesn't gouge consumers.
And you can be as dismissive as you want, but I'm sure you can still find the story in the Vancouver newspaper from a year ago, which noted that sales of milk were so-brisk in one Washington State border town, that one store added a second cash register devoted exclusively to Canadian funds - BC dairy farmers saw the story, and, of course, went berserk, but why would anyone feel sorry for them?
It's like this, consumers, especially those living near the US border, already know that supply management is a crock of BS, and with a 38% price differential, it won't be long before all 33 million Canadians also figure it out - then we'll see who laughs, and it won't be Canadian dairy and poultry farmers.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

I bet the cops who got caught smuggling in cheese thought the same !
You is too funny !

Yes get 4 or 5 people together for a trip across the border to buy you milk save big. I still think you should write either comedy or fiction novels so the 33 million Canadians can all read about car pooling to buy milk South of the border . By the time the SM farmers are abolished they will have so much land and money they wouldn,t care if the bottom did fall out of the price for chicken , eggs or milk. There is more people we talk too and seen the news about taking their pets across the border to get their shots or neutered or spayed are unreal. Oh maybe they will buy that cheap milk and feed it to their dog or cat while they,re over there who knows . I,ve seen buses going to the casinos for free but I,ve yet to here or seen any heading over to the USA to buy milk? Trolls or Jokers there,re all the same keep the comedy coming we all have such a good laugh reading it.

A few months ago, I was eating at a restaurant in Ontario which is over an hour away from Sarnia. I overheard a few ladies at the table next to me discussing their past weekend shopping trip to the states. I was a little bit surprised(because they do not live close to the US), but not totally, to hear them mention how they each brought back 2 gallon jugs of milk for themselves and their children that had recently moved out. So I asked what they paid, they said $2.50/gallon

Hope they made sure that the milk didn,t get to hot on their long trip home.

Yes it might be a tough decision as to what product gets the cooler with ice . The milk and chicken or the cheap beer !

Sales of milk in Canada decline every year, every year more people go to the US to buy milk, cheese, and other dairy products, and every year there are, thanks to the fact that there is no pill which prevents aging, more young farmers who have no desire to spend their entire lives seeing supply management get everything, while they get nothing, and the only thing a lot of supply management supporters seem to be able to do, because they can't deny reality, is to make dismissive jokes.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

it is unbelievable how readily you promote cross border shopping for food products .....i am envisioning in a couple of weeks you will be encouraging cross border school supply shopping and then cross border christmas shopping.

what part of you support Canada?

G Kimble

I'm not promoting cross-border shopping for food, except for those foods which, like dairy and poultry products, Canadian consumers are being gouged by the farmers who produce those products - I'm simply reporting the type of cross-border shopping reality Canadian farmers refuse to accept.
What is truly unbelievable is the bizarre lengths to which farmers, particularly older ones, will go to deliberately not understand why being forced by supply management to pay almost 38% more for milk in Canada than in the US, drives consumers to the US to buy milk, and drives younger non-supply managed farmers to detest supply management with a passion.
I mean, really, nobody goes to the US to buy pork, beef, fish, vegetables, or fruit, because, thanks to the absence of supply management, there's not a substantial, if any, cross-border difference in price - yet farmers fall all over themselves to claim that dairy and poultry producers deserve to be coddled by 200% percent tariff barriers, thereby allowing them to maintain their special status as economic bullies in the farm community.
What part about double-standards and structural dysfunction in the farm community do you not understand and/or refuse to understand?

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

I think its more anti- Canadian that you promote than anything or anti-Canadian Farmer. If you want to live in a country that,s import all it products and produce move to Antarctica and you can be all alone with nothing to bitch about.

What's anti-Canadian is forcing Canadians (with 200% to 300% tariffs) to pay more to the SM sector so that we can make second class citizens out of non SM farmers. Why not move SM to Antarctica? Food is already expensive there anyway.

You would not need a fridge or freezer to keep you milk , chicken and BEER cold !! Although you might want an anti bear and alcholic locker .

Waving the patriotism flag when you can't defend your position any other way is, and always has been, the refuge of both scoundrels and simpletons.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

Its nice to know we have some pre school humor that's like to turn to name calling. Keep telling you start writing for Comedy Central so everyone can get a big laugh , not just the BF readers.

sorry to even think of correcting you but consumers don't have to go to the US to purchase American pork/beef/fish/ VEGETABLES and FRUITS ...they just have to watch the flyers for "lost leaders" at the large supermarket chains. Who would think Canadians want cheap american berries/melons etc when Canadian product is in season..............so if they continue to get SM products/food/clothes/electronics/etc etc ......i don't think you are a Canadian merchant

g kimble

Your arguments are becoming absurd - the point is that Canadian consumers pay virtually the same for beef, pork, vegetables and fruit, regardless where they are produced, as US consumers. The only thing different is that Canadian consumers are forced to pay almost 38% more than US consumers to buy milk, solely because of the extortionist tactics Canadian dairy farmers are legally allowed to use to the detriment of consumers and other farmers.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

Home Depot: tool I need costs 76% more in Canada. It's made in the US. Same store tool, warranty etc. and no tariffs.

Firestone: autoparts made in the US I bought for nearly half price in the US. Amazon won't ship this item to Canada.

Savings of almost $200 on the first item and nearly $500 on the second. Both items obviously being supply managed but not by a marketing board.

U.S.car and motorcycle dealers are threatened with loss of franchise for selling a new vehicle to a Canadian. Their prices are far lower than Canadian. Supply is obviously being managed.

You must be mistaken there is no way its cheaper than Canada , I,ve been reading on here that only milk and chicken is cheaper there and we Canadians only pay more on SM products. GO FIGURE

Stephen has said it so it must be true . Right Steve ? My faith is in your hands here !! Tell them it is not so ! Lie to me if you have to !

You use someone elses name, and twice, yet you don't use yours? I have no qualms with someone posting nameless, just not in this nature. Your post shows just how much of a coward and chickensh*t you are. People who know they are wrong always resort to these measures. An 8 year old could write a better refute. Raube Beuerman

Yes people who are wrong always resort to name calling as you have done . Looking for the truth , proof and facts does not warrant name calling and such childish refute . Putting a name to some thing does not make it according to the Gospel . It is always the way when wrong to resort to name calling .

Also you no longer have a qualm with a nameless posting , that is a real turn of events . Not long ago you were all over any one who posted with out a name .

Have a nice day .

I have never had a problem with nameless posts when they attack ideas, not people, or make general statements. In addition, if I want to reply to someone who shoots the messenger without a name, I have every right to call them out.
Raube Beuerman

I am just having fun toying with ya's !!

The signature on any thing does not make it honest , truthful or in the best interest of those who it is meant for the betterment of . Look at our Ont. Gov. and tell me I am wrong !

US dairy farmers receive the kind of taxpayer handouts that our pork industry has. Taxpayer buyouts and subsidies there haven't lowered dairy prices as much as they should have.
The 2 countries aren't even close on autoparts. Compare Sears Canada and Sears US and if you want to compare regular merchandise prices between US and Canada just use Amazon.ca and Amazon.com You'll see some shocking differences. Why does a snowmobile or ATV made in Canada cost less in the US?

Items on Amazon.ca wouldn't even exist if what you say is true. Likewise for Ebay. As a regular online shopper, the difference in price is small and also due to the dollar exchange. Your example of tires is rediculous, of course they won't ship tires here and even if they did the freight would be extremely high, negating any savings. When it comes to snowmobiles or ATV's, the price difference is only about 10%, and very few people travel across the border for those items. Recently Yamaha was able to signifigantly lower the price of their machines, simply because the bulk of their machines are now built in the USA, not Japan.
When I was on a trip in the central states, we shopped at a Walmart. Hormone free HOMO milk was 2.59/US gallon. Boneless fresh chicken breast was 1.99/lb. At the Walmart in Sarnia, 4L HOMO milk was 5.60 and boneless fresh chicken breast was 13.50kg. Even when you factor in that the US farmer is subsidized, it would be a very small part of the price, so the difference is truly shocking.
This post has been brought to you by sound economic good sense. Raube Beuerman

It's easy enough to compare prices. I could post examples but you might justifiably argue that I have been selective.
In some cases these differences exist because manufacturers or distributors practice a form of supply management. Amazon.ca exists because Amazon.com won't ship items covered by these supply management systems to Canada.

Bombardier products, made in Canada have historically sold cheaper in the US than here.

US meat and poultry are both cheaper in the US

US meat and chicken processors have used cheap illegal labour for years.

US milk producers get the kind of taxpayer handouts our pork producers have received. (Great business model)

NCPGA compares US chicken production to serfdom

1. BRP products are cheap in Canada also thanks to NAFTA. A few years ago BRP moved much of its production to Mexico to lower costs. I know many SM farmers here who are proud of their BRP, expecially the price they paid for it. Funny how NAFTA is convenient for them.
2. Pork and beef in the US Walmart I was in was within cents per pound of what it is here.
3.SM farmers use cheap illegal labour here also-remember the chicken catching crew crash last year which killed many?

4. Yes, I know US milk producers are subsidized by taxpayers, the way it is in the rest of the world, the way it should be here. In Canada they are subsidized by consumers(Great business model)
Raube Beuerman

Many media reports of complaints about BRP products MADE HERE but sold cheaper in US. By mentioning Mexico you are confirming your belief that we have higher production costs for those machines. No different than many sm products.

US Pork, beef and chicken is usually sold cheaper here in Canada than Canadian product. It's price not quality that drives these US taxpayer subsidized sales here.

I did see that the chicken crew were foreign workers but I missed the part them being illegal. Could you point me to a source for that fact?

Ok so you're saying Canadian farmers should operate with taxpayer subsidies like the US does instead of letting consumers pay full price. I disagree but you are entitled to your opinion. I guess it depends on one's view of the world more than what works or doesn't work. IE left wing vs right or somewhere in the middle. The kind of self inflicted failure our meat producers have seen is a great example of right wing or Libertarian philosophy. Not sure where the constant demand for taxpayer bailouts fits with this however. Maybe that's somewhere in the middle?

Many many industries operate with various forms of supply management. Potash industry is the most recent one to hit the news. So you buy a supply managed product to produce some that aren't. Another great business model.

So maybe you're suggesting everything in Canada should copy the SM model. Everything could jump in price by 38% the borders could be closed to everything that couldn't jump the 200-300% hurdle at the border. We would have to create a huge bureaucracy to support the whole thing. That would push costs higher. No one could start a business of any kind without purchasing a quota. That would push costs higher. Lawyers would not be able to keep up with all the challenges...you're vision doesn't paint a pretty picture.
I believe what you want is to buy everything at world price and sell everything in your own little protected world of SM...kind of self serving don't you think?

Mr. Beuerman:

I was directed to your comments about SM.

You state:
3. "SM farmers use cheap illegal labour here also-remember the chicken catching crew crash last year which killed many?"

Bold statements.

Will you please provide proof of SM farmers using "illegal labour"?

Please verify the information about the devastating "chicken catching crew". When you have completed the verification, post a correction to your statements.

If your information is incorrect, are you just mistaken or is it an attempted slander of a sector of society?

Methinks you are diverting attention away from the real issue which is that supply management is little more than the legalized economic slavery of over 33 million Canadian consumers - and given that even the Dairy Farmers of Ontario admitted, in late 2010, that Ontario consumers were paying almost 38% more than US consumers for milk, and that the farm gate price of milk in Ontario was within a few pennies per liter of the US retail price, is the undeniable truth which no-one can dispute.
In addition, Mr. Beuerman's comments are no more slander than recent comments on this site from an anonymous (aren't they all?) supply management supporter who called non-supply managed farmers "losers".
Furthermore, even though Mr. Beuerman may have been inadvertently slippery with the truth, his oversight is nowhere near the mis-representation continually made by the Canadian dairy industry that milk produced by the supply management system is "BST-free" when, because since nobody knows how much BST is imported by Canadian dairy farmers for their own use, nobody knows how much milk produced by the supply management system, does contain BST.
Therefore, now, as always, people who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones, especially from behind the shield of anonymity.

Strephen Thompson, Clinton ON

Can you prove that US milk and other products would be cheaper here . Me thinks not since many things made here or there can be bought cheaper south of the border .

NEXT !!

How could it not be cheaper? Your argument died when DFO admitted, in late 2010, that the Ontario farm gate price of milk was with a few pennies per liter of the US retail price.
That not only told volumes about who the true bandits are in the Canadian dairy industry, it also gave everyone a good reason to do something about this larceny on the part of Canadian dairy farmers.
To look at it another way, why, if it's such a bad idea to give consumers a chance to have lower prices, are dairy and poultry farmers so opposed?

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

I already asked Mr. Beuerman about that. Deafening silence in response.

How fearful of being wrong does someone have to be to tell malicious lies about unfortunate victims of a horrendous traffic accident?

Google for yourself, there has been confirmed illegal labour on many types of farms in Ontario. Illegal or not, the migrant employees were still paid less than minimum wage of Canadian citizens, although I believe that has changed since the RBC scandal, now TFW's are paid the same minimum wage. I cannot prove for sure that any on that van were illegal, I read there was not an inquest, so I apologize for that, but they were migrant workers, who at that time were making less than minimum wage here in Ontario. You should not claim that US farms are using cheap labour as a defense mechanism when the same is happening in Canada. Raube Beuerman

Mr. Beurerman:

There are many statements on the internet, including your very public comments. Finding information via google does not authenticate information as correct.

Please identify one farmer using "illegal" employees to validate your claims. The proper authorities will deal with them appropriately.

As for your statement concerning migrate workers receiving "minimum wage", provide a copy of the TFW contract stating the workers received less than minimum/prevailing wage.

If you cannot back up your claims, retract your statements and apologize. Otherwise, your continued position with associated public comments could be construed as slanderous.

At least the ones that have been caught. Also, I believe you are trying to deliberatley change the subject which is that SM farmers recieve protection, and wave the Canadian flag, while at the same time benefit from free trade with better prices on many things they purchase, and use foreign labour. Here are some stories which you could have easily found yourself. It took me less than a minute. Raube Beuermanhttp://blogs.windsorstar.com/2013/05/16/six-undocumented-workers-arreste...

I have a Caribbean friend that has relatives working in Canada on farms who would disagree with you. There are examples of abuse, which have been displayed in various court cases. One recently where there was a settlement of several hundred thousand dollars in favor of the farm worker. Read the papers. But that is in a court of law...this is just a chat line. Why don't you try to get back to the original discussion instead of pretending you're some sort of legal expert?

I read the papers. Maybe you don't understand.

The case of the migrant worker receiving compensation was under the Human rights tribunal where the worker was verbal abused and felt his self-respect was injured. The case stemmed from Hate Laws in Ontario.

This is a public chat site and the comments you make can be retrieved by a google search. Your comments are not private chatter.

By some of the public comments on this site, there are farmers that could bring action under the Human Rights Tribunal.

Ontario's Human Rights Code[36] forbids discrimination upon various grounds which depend upon the circumstances. An adjudicator may order inter alia a respondent: to pay monetary compensation to the complainant "including compensation for injury to dignity, feelings and self-respect"; to make restitution to the complainant "including restitution for injury to dignity, feelings and self-respect"; and to do anything that will rectify the respondent's violation of the Code.

The number of Canadians using US depots like UPS or Kinek to save money has grown almost exponentially. How much of that cross border shopping involves dairy, eggs or poultry?

I would guess zero?

Ha ha that's funny shipping milk to a parcel depot. Yup I bet that's why those depots are so popular with Canadians who are just lined up to get US dairy products shipped there ROFL

That might even smell worse than the BS people here are coming up with to bash law abiding farmers who manage their supply responsibly.

The usual farmer bashing by two of the posters here is pretty distasteful but I think things have hit a new low with the attack on the foreign workers who lost their lives.

Now we have a comedy writer and a down right bully . Nice to know we have a person that wants somebodies name so they can do whatever. Where is the law when you need them , don,t they keep telling people about bullying online.

All things , prices are the same . It is however different for Agriculture . Here we have higher prices for Ag parts because we have SM here in Canada all of AG pays a premium price for parts compared to the USA . Auto industry and all others , prices are all the same . Gas , diesel , booze any and every thing is priced the same . Right Steve ? Don't leave me hanging here !

Point missed that you fail to see is that there are different rules for producing milk and many other things here than in the USA . Further if other sectors are willing to bow down to the the import price when the COP is higher is their problem and they should not be wanting better labeling to identify canadain products .

You fail to see that what you are preaching is from the bible according to Steve . With Steve double standards and no proof to back your claims .

" US Milk Sales Drop to Lowest in Nearly 30 Years"

US Milk Consumption Lowest in 30 Years
Source: "Milk Monsters," itsamummyslife.com, June 20, 2012

US milk sales in 2011 fell to the lowest level since 1984, according to US Department of Agriculture figures released in Aug. 2012. US milk consumption averaged 20.04 gallons per person in 2011, down from a high of 29.8 gallons in 1970.

"We have known there's been a continuous decline in per-capita milk consumption for many years," said Vivien Godfrey, CEO of the Milk Processor Education Program known for the "Got Milk?" and milk mustache advertising campaigns. "Milk has lost out to other beverages..."
http://www.procon.org/headline.php?headlineID=005116

You're arguing the same way the NFU always does - regardless of what the US consumption actually is, they, at least get to use the price component of the marketing mix, but we don't - and that's why Canadians go to the US to buy milk, and also why Americans don't come to Canada to buy theirs.
Therefore, because we can't use price to sell milk, our consumption, all else being equal, will always be less than that in the US, and the bigger our price differential is, the worse it's going to get.
Finally, it's too bad that dairy farmer types can't figure out that, with all their hype, and convoluted logic, about subsidies, supply management, by virtue of cross-border shopping, and the resulting increase in milk sales for US farmers, serves as a subsidy for US dairy farmers -
yessiree, Bob, Canadian dairy farmers are, by definition, subsidizing US dairy farmers, and will continue to do so, as long as supply management drives people across the border to buy milk.
Hypocrisy by Canadian dairy farmers is, if nothing else, amazingly-funny!

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

Wikipedia
In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally[3][4] or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[5] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[6]

Experienced participants in online forums know that the most effective way to discourage a troll is usually to ignore it[citation needed], because responding tends to encourage trolls to continue disruptive posts – hence the often-seen warning: "Please do not feed the trolls".

The true trolls, especially on this site, are:
!1) those who keep claiming BST is banned in Canada
(2) those who refuse to sign their names to their postings

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

http://curezone.com/forums/troll.asp
He is divisive and argumentative with need-to-be-right attitude, "searching for the truth", flaming discussion, and sometimes insulting people or provoking people to insult him. Troll is usually an expert in reusing the same words of its opponents and in turning it against them.

He needs to build up his resume for a job opening at the Globe and Mail.Someone needs to tell him they are firing more people at the G&M than hiring.

Post new comment

To prevent automated spam submissions leave this field empty.
Image CAPTCHA
We welcome thoughtful comments and ideas. Comments must be on topic. Cheap shots, unsubstantiated allegations, anonymous attacks or negativity directed against people and organizations will not be published. Comments are modified or deleted at the discretion of the editors. If you wish to be identified by name, which will give your opinion far more weight and provide a far greater chance of being published, leave a telephone number so that identity can be confirmed. The number will not be published.